Jorgen, very well put, diving has become a business and as such money will
change hands. People do not want to pay what a exceptional course would cost.

>Hi everyone, Im new to the NG but I can't help commenting on this. This
>debate has been going on here in Denmark for years and it always comes down
>to money. There are many divecenters who would love to teach responsible
>diving on longer more demanding courses, but they cannot compete with the
>clubs voluntary manpower. They usually end up doing "the PADI thing" simply
>because they have a rent to pay or do as the serious ones, turn to IANTD for
>the advanced classes and PADI for entry level.
>I have certs from all three and I find that CMAS is the best "one deal"
>course, but PADI is not as bad as it's rep if people did as PADI recommend
>and go on to the rescue diver and medic first aid. Unfortunatelly many do
>not. IANTD is not beginners courses in my opinion, but excellent for "moving
>on..."
>In short you cannot ignore the money, because the centers have to live ! As
>well they should. Ignoring that aspect makes the debate unfair.
>
>Best regards
>Jørgen
>PADI AOW, CMAS ***, IANTD Adv. Nitrox
>"Victor J." skrev i en meddelelse
>news:95giip$o1i$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
>> In article <95em0c$4cg$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,
>> Carla Fairbanks wrote:
>> > Victor, both approaches are available on both continents but the PADI
>> > quicky course is preferred in America whereas more thorough training
>> > seems to be preferred in Europe primarily because of the popularity of
>> > club systems. Can I ask you to tell me approximately how much you
>> paid
>> > for the PADI course and the CMAS course in total and also break it
>> down
>> > into cost per hour of training?
>> >
>>
>> As has been pointed out by others in this thread, this is not a fair
>> comparison, because my CMAS certification was done within a club, while
>> my PADI OW was from a commercial dive shop. If I remember correctly,
>> the PADI course (all inclusive, with gear) was about USD 350 for four
>> days of full-time instruction. The CMAS course was about USD 550 for 10
>> periods of classroom instruction and 20 dives, including gear (but by
>> then I had most of my own). Half of this went to the club's Holiday
>> Fund, which organizes a diving trip to the Mediterranean every year. In
>> this way, the club avoids being accused of unfair competition by local
>> dive shops, and the members get something out of helping with the
>> instruction. Nobody gets paid.
>>
>> Just to clarify CMAS standards, there are three levels of
>> certification, as follows:
>>
>> P* is equivalent to PADI OW. The Swiss CMAS affiliate considers this
>> sufficient to allow "immersions in open water, under protected
>> conditions, up to a depth of 10m and within the safety curve".
>>
>> P** is more or less equivalent to PADI Rescue Diver. P** divers
>> are "able to dive with partners of equivalent experience, autonomously
>> and safely. They have been introduced to deco diving."
>>
>> P*** has no PADI equivalent that I know of (maybe DM). P*** divers
>> are "qualified to organize and direct groups of autonomous divers of
>> all levels, in any kind of waters, under any type of conditions, and
>> with full security. They are qualified to practice deco diving".
>>
>> My point here is that the P** certificate constitutes the minimal
>> qualification for safe, autonomous OW diving. I fully agree with this
>> statement. I did not feel that I was qualified to dive autonomously
>> (i.e. without a qualified DM around) with a PADI OW. I wish that other
>> diving organizations would set similar standards. Whether
>> qualifications are acquired within a club, or a dive shop, or just
>> diving with more experienced buddies, is immaterial. But it IS IMHO
>> dangerous to consider someone with a basic OW C-card and no further
>> documented experience as an autonomous diver and send him/her out into
>> the water without supervision. Yes, there are people who fake dive
>> logs. No one can do anything for them.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent via Deja.com
>> http://www.deja.com/
>

George R Horn
Owner Scuba Divine
Horn's Cycle Service
Brooklyn, NY
(718) 647 1089