Brian, I teach in the NY City area, adverse conditions to say the least.
Quicky courses would not allow a person to dive safely in our area. Once
again, pull out PADI's book Brian, conditions are to be evaluated and changes
made accordingly, or did you not read something to that effect.

>> Brian, no matter what is said to you, you have a way to twist it around.
>
>Are you for real? Have you read your own outlandish misstatements of
>whgat I've said this week?
>I'm going to pass on further response to that statement because I'm at a
>loss for a civil response.
>
>> Are we talking about DMs or beginners.
>
>You know full well we've been discussing entry level training. Don't be
>coy with me - it doesn't become you.
>
>> Wuit the bull, adequate training exists,
>
>Of course it does. I never said it didn't. But it exists because
>individual instructors have the conscience to go above and beyond what
>the standards demand. Problem is, that defies the definition of what a
>standard is. Ever gone lobstering George? Those little aluminum gauges
>for legal size - those are a standard. They don't expect you to only
>take lobsters that are more than 3/4" LONGER than the gauge; they expect
>you to take ones that are no shorter than it. The gauge defines the
>criteria for compliance, not some vague point below the criteria. Same
>thing for a certification standard - it should define a bright shining
>line between adequate and inadequate training, such that any inadequate
>training can't help but be in violation.
>
>> it didn't we would have thousands dying each year. Entry level scuba
>courses
>> if taught to agency standards are fine.
>
>Fine? Quicky courses are taught to agency standards. PADI SAYS SO
>THEMSELVES!!!
>Why do you refuse to teach a course, George, that clearly meets the
>definition of "FINE" that you just stated only four lines above? The
>only possible answer is you don't believe in or trust your own boldly
>stated definition, and you set a personal standard for yourself that is
>better than the agency minimum.
>
>> You want to argue the point be my
>> guest. I have trained well over 1000 people in 42 years some never
>received a
>> card from me.
>
>That's great George, personally, I'm proud of you for failing some, but
>it's not what PADI encourages, and those you failed could probably find
>an instructor who would pass them as is, and still be within standards.
>
>> What are you calling a quicky course, a resort course, I am talking about
>full
>> certification courses.
>
>I'm not talking about resort courses. I'm talking about in and out in
>two days, full OW certification, and promoted as the quickest and
>easiest there is.
>
>> Again Brian for the umpteenth time read the book and
>> tell me where it is wrong or mistaken.
>
>Again, George, I don't need to. I only need look at the results. I
>don't need to do an engineering analysis on a lobster gauge to know it's
>faulty if it measures a lobster as legal size and then Fish and Game
>comes along and measures it as illegal and fines me. It failed to
>define the limit of legality.
>We both know there are quicky courses turning out inadequately trained
>divers, and that no provable violations of standards are taking place in
>them. Thus the standards fail to define adequate training in a manner
>that precludes inadequate training without violation. Therefore, they
>are flawed. This is elementary logic.
>

George R Horn
Owner Scuba Divine
Horn's Cycle Service
Brooklyn, NY
(718) 647 1089